Libraries4DE found a digital navigator willing to give us the down and dirty from behind the scenes in their library’s digital navigation program. Check out their tips on surviving this high-burnout role, secrets they won’t tell their boss, and suggestions on what your library can do differently.

This interview is part of the Digital Inclusion Week 2024 series (#DIW2024). It was conducted by Libraries4DE editor Bernard Ino and transcribed and adapted for this article by managing director Liz Gabbitas.

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Digital navigator programs have had their moment in the sun. By now, it’s old news. We’ve been hearing about “tech mentors,” “internet safety coaches,” and various other digital navigators for years; but the pitch usually comes from the people designing the programs, not the ones actually working with patrons. Even when the program mastermind is the digital navigator as well, they’re often Librarians (with a capital L for the MLIS).

I wondered how things look for a digital navigator who’s never worked in a library before. 

To find out, I met up with one. The following interviewee is a digital navigator. They got involved with this work after looking for a part-time job that could use their computer skills but keep them engaged with other people. In order to get the dirty details, we’re keeping this anonymous. Our conversation is transcribed with edits for readability.

~ Bernard

Libraries4DE: Thanks for agreeing to talk with me! I’m so curious to hear your thoughts.

Digital Navigator: Sure, I’m happy to share.

L4DE: Let’s jump right in, then. How long have you been a digital navigator?

DN: Okay, so it’s been… I think two years? I started during the pandemic, so time gets kind of messed up.

L4DE: Yeah. So the library had already established the digital navigator program, right? It wasn’t—you weren’t involved with creating it at all.

DN: Right. I think they started in 2019, then went virtual in 2020, and then went back to in-person by 2021 before I joined. All of the original navigators were gone by then, and I only overlapped with a few people from the—kind of the second shift. Within a couple of months I had been there the longest out of anybody. That’s still true, by the way. I’ve had three managers.

L4DE: So what was the mood when you first came on board?

DN: I would say cautiously optimistic. I think there had been such a rush of excitement that the library could brag about this cool thing it was doing during COVID, and they felt like this program would evolve into the next cool thing. You know? Like, digital navigators were cool, but now we need you to be the next big trend too.

L4DE: Okay. And what would you say is the mood right now?

DN: Exhausted. (laughs) Just ****ing exhausted.

L4DE: Is that for you and the other navigators, or management, or what?

DN: It’s both. I mean, I’m seeing what you library people are going through—man, it’s…it’s ****. But like, that exhaustion is everywhere, and it’s just not—you can’t look at what the team is feeling and think everything is fine. If nothing changes, we won’t be here next year.

You can’t look at what the team is feeling and think everything is fine.

If nothing changes, we won’t be here next year.

L4DE: What do you mean?

DN: Okay, so my job is paid by a grant right now. It used to be a different grant, and in between for a while it was something in the budget they moved around, and—I don’t know, but the point is, I never know if this job will keep existing. Me and the other digital navigators, should we be looking for jobs? Because the grant is ending. Like, I’ve worked for nonprofits before. I get it. But I’m not dedicating my life to this. I’m not writing grants off the clock to keep the program running, or volunteering when the funding runs out. It’s my job! And I love what I do when I get to actually do it, but it’s not part of my identity, you know? It’s gotta be stable, a stable job and a stable program. It’s super fulfilling, but I’m not going to do it on my own time for free, you know? Is that—

L4DE: Sure. But that’s the case with a lot of people, and a lot of library jobs.

DN: No, it’s—okay, so maybe a lot of librarians feel like they could just switch jobs within the library. I don’t know. Maybe they do! But that’s not the way anyone thinks about us.

L4DE: “Us” meaning digital navigators?

DN: Yeah. We’re not supposed to—they gave us really clear training that’s like, “Here’s how to help them put a request on a hotspot, but don’t you dare actually check out a hotspot to them. That’s for real library staff.” 

L4DE: Whoa.

DN: Yeah! So me and my whole team, I’m treated like we’re this totally separate program that’s just using the library’s building or something. Like, I could be helpful if you’d just let me. Sometimes people don’t show up for stuff, and I’m just sitting around for my shift. I could shelve, or cover the desk, or—

L4DE: Are these rules, like set policies, or are they just—is it a culture thing at your library?

DN: I don’t know. That’s—it’s above my pay grade or whatever. But if, like, someone called in sick and they didn’t have anyone to cover, they would close the library early rather than have a digital navigator cover a desk shift. I mean, I’ve actually seen it happen. We’re just… we’re not library employees. Not really.

L4DE: Does the library want it that way, do you think?

DN: Either the library does, or other librarians do. You know, I was really stunned when I heard the phrase “information…” —what do they call librarians?

L4DE: Information professionals?

DN: Yeah, “information professionals.” Like, that’s what I do!

L4DE: Oh yeah, I guess the—

DN: I mean, I know it’s more…more complicated, I guess, the whole—the librarian thing. But why isn’t this job already part of being an “information professional?”

L4DE: Well, it’s a different skill set, isn’t it?

DN: No! Not really. One time someone tried to explain the—what do you call that thing, when a person asks a question at the desk and you have to figure out—

L4DE: The reference interview?

DN: Yes, exactly! So a librarian was explaining the whole idea of a reference interview to me, and I was just thinking, well that’s exactly what I have to do. Like, they should teach digital navigators how to do a reference interview.

L4DE: What about the tech skills? You have a background working with computers. That’s not—I don’t think that’s common with library workers.

DN: Look, I would never tell the library director this, but anybody could do my job. I wanted it because I liked tech, but honestly, one of the best navigators on the team came in with almost no computer skills. You have to get satisfaction from helping someone, not from showing off your tech skills. It’s all about attitude, being excited to learn. Pretty much everyone at my library is like that, not just the digital navigators. So really, any one of them would be amazing at teaching computers. You just have to be willing to get excited about learning alongside the person you’re teaching. If that was—if everybody thought that, then the digital navigators wouldn’t have to be this weird, temporary program. Because it seems like the library doesn’t even want to claim it. They’d rather have it separate.

Anybody could do this job. It’s all about attitude. You just have to be willing to get excited about learning alongside the person you’re teaching.

L4DE: So what’s the solution? Do you—should digital navigators be cross-trained for other library jobs, or should they be separate? Should libraries hand off their digital navigators to some other group, like the health department or senior center or whatever?

DN: Well it depends on what you want to get out of it. My city actually did that, the handing—the second thing you said.

L4DE: Wait, your library handed off their navigators? But I thought—

DN: No, that’s—they tried.

L4DE: (laughing) You’ve got to explain this.

DN: They tried to get rid of us but… (laughing) Okay, so there was some weird political stuff. I don’t know. But for whatever reason, the city decided to shut down my library branch, but keep the digital navigators. So I’d be sitting there with my little sign offering tech help, and people would come up with a big stack of library books going “What do you mean the library’s closed? Well, when’s it gonna open?” And I’m trying to—I’m explaining, but like, I don’t wanna—

L4DE: You don’t want to be the bad guy.

DN: Exactly! I’m telling them, “Okay, I’ll pass on your feedback.” But you know that’s the last thing the city wants to hear. “Hey, you closed a really popular service and people are complaining.” Yeah, no one at the city cares.

L4DE: Wow.

DN: Anyway, I think that was one of the real drawbacks with having our program so separate from the rest of the library. Like other departments, they could pass their customers between each other. But I didn’t have that, like, support from other library staff. I couldn’t say “oh hey, here’s a quick resource right here in our collection.” I’d have to refer them to a completely different building. I was just in a community center.

L4DE: You said “was.” Is that past tense? Are you not—

DN: Oh, they moved us back. Yeah we’re library employees again.

L4DE: Do you feel more supported now?

DN: Kind of. I mean, we’re definitely part of the library this time. We have library name tags, and we can help people use e-resources and stuff. That helps a lot. But I still wish I didn’t have to send them away to talk to someone else if they have—you know, a problem with their library card or something.

L4DE: Why do you think that’s still off-limits for you, for the digital navigator team?

DN: This sounds weird, but I think upstairs they see how fast we burn out and they’re scared we’ll infect the librarians.

L4DE: The upstairs? Wait, infect—what?

DN: (laughing) Sorry, bad word choice. Like, all the management people see how bad our turnover is, and they’re worried we’ll make the rest of the library burn out at a higher rate, too.

L4DE: What do you mean? What’s the burnout rate?

DN: I don’t know, like, 100%? 90%, maybe. At my library, everyone who worked there in the first two years is gone now. Not even the manager is still there. I’ve met digital navigators at other libraries, and no one’s been there longer than a year or two. And I’m not sure how much longer I can do this. My job was—I’ve been here longer than anyone else on the team, and that’s only because I care about—it’s weird, but I think this is the first time I’ve ever, like, really believed in my job? Like I want the library to succeed. I want this program to work. You know?

L4DE: Yeah. I remember when—that’s the same thing I said about my first library job. I think that’s a library thing.

DN: Probably. My coworkers have said that too. Like, if it was a business doing this, or even a nonprofit or something, there’s no way I’d have stuck it out this long. But you get the whole library experience here. It’s chaos, but it’s so, so rewarding.

L4DE: Even plunging toilets? That’s the stereotypical experience—

DN: Oh yeah. Overflowing toilets, people screaming at you, running around trying to find keys, having the—one time, there was this talent show or something going on in the auditorium, and I guess maintenance had turned the thermostat off for the night? So it was sweltering, just packed full and so hot. And I’m running up and down the halls trying different offices, looking for the—you know.

L4DE: Yep, sounds like working in a library.

DN: (laughing) Right?! People asking where the bathrooms are, wanting me to call the police on kids for playing too loud, telling me their conspiracy theories, and it’s—

L4DE: (laughing) Oh man, the conspiracy theories…

DN: Yeah, and it’s never useful theories. Like, I’d love to know who is smearing poop into the carpet, you know? I’d like a conspiracy theory on why the drinking fountains never work. I’d like—well, anyway.

L4DE: Man. 

DN: It’s—yeah.

L4DE: Okay refocusing. It kinda sounds like you love it. Not to editorialize, but—

DN: No, totally. That’s the only way I survive. I love it. It doesn’t matter how messy it is on the back end, or how confusing it is when HR asks me my department code. Like, what? I don’t know. I get to come in to work, help people with really frustrating problems, and be a safe place to ask questions. It’s just—it feels so good. My coworkers are chill, my manager is at least trying. I think she—she knows we need more support, and she’s trying. And at the end of the day, I get a paycheck. So far, that’s enough to keep me from burning out.

I love it. I get to come in to work, help people with really frustrating problems, and be a safe place to ask questions. And at the end of the day, I get a paycheck.

So far, that’s enough to keep me from burning out.

L4DE: On that note, I want to ask about your boss. This interview is supposed to go up during Digital Inclusion Week, and this year’s DI Week theme is “Mobilizing Towards Sustainability.” I think one of the criticisms I see the most about digital navigator programs is that they’re not sustainable.

DN: Oh yeah, totally.

L4DE: Tell me—first, tell me if you think that’s a misconception—

DN: It’s not. I’ll just tell you that. It’s not a misconception.

L4DE: Okay, then tell me what you think your boss could do differently, or if making a digital navigator program sustainable is outside what one manager, or one library, can do?

DN: I mean, that’s a hard one. My current boss does a great job at helping us set boundaries. I think that’s important, and it really helps. Like, I had one manager that told us, “Always do anything you can for the client!” She would go to people’s houses to help them set up routers or whatever, or stay super late after closing because she wasn’t done with someone. That was—it was a mission for her, not a job. Like, this was her purpose in life, I think. But she’s gone now. No surprise.

After she burned out and quit, we got this manager we have now. She treats this like a job, not a mission, and she treats us like we’re all just—you know, employees. Which we are. At first clients were really upset we wouldn’t give them our cell phone numbers and text them all the time for help. But she—the manager—she got the library to set up a phone extension that goes straight to us. So now we can tell people, “Sure, we can help you set up your router at home. Just call the library, dial our extension, and we’ll talk you through it as long as we’re open.” It makes it easier to say no if clients ask for something we can’t do, too. It’s so much better.

L4DE: Wow. That seems like such an obvious fix, but—

DN: Exactly! Now it seems obvious, but before, the library just accepted that their digital navigators had to give 110% all the time until they burn out. So I really appreciate that my manager helps us treat it like customer service, not—like, you know—on-call doctors.

I appreciate that my manager helps us treat [digital navigation] like customer service, not like…on-call doctors.

L4DE: And is that helping keep people in the job for longer?

DN: I don’t know yet. She’s only been here for like—maybe six months? So her changes are still pretty new. But I do think new people on the team seem a little happier. And the ones that have been here longer—

L4DE: Like you.

DN: Yeah. We’re still pretty exhausted from all the **** we’ve been through. But it’s a little better. At least I don’t feel like I have to quit for the sake of my mental health. There’s been some points like that in the past.

L4DE: Okay, but you said earlier you don’t think this will last into next year.

DN: No, that’s—if they don’t have funding, yeah, it’ll die. And I’m not gonna find the money for them. That’s the upstairs job. It’s just—I’d really like to never get another email that says, “Hey, just so you know, if we don’t get another grant your job goes away.” Like, I know budgets are tight but can’t the library figure it out? Maybe one less part time worker from every department so you can keep one part time digital navigator permanently? I don’t know. That’s above—like I said earlier, above my pay grade.

L4DE: Right. It’s hard.

DN: Yeah. But I’d like to keep doing this, if I can.

L4DE: That’s great. Well it’s been really interesting—enlightening—hearing about your experience.

DN: Sure. Hopefully this is what you were looking for.

L4DE: Oh yeah, perfect. Do you have any final thoughts? Any advice you want to give other libraries or their digital navigators?

DN: Well that’s—I mean, I can only tell you my perspective. Maybe stuff is totally different at other libraries. But for me, I just want to be part of the library team. I hope other digital navigators are supported, and trained well, and paid well. Man, that’s—I guess my advice is just to value your digital navigators like you value any employee you want to see stick around. We can be a huge help to the whole team.

L4DE: Fantastic. Thanks so much for sitting down with me.

DN: No problem. Oh, and to my fellow digital navigators: good luck!

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